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C.S.M.P. Digest             Tue, 19 May 92       Volume 1 : Issue 86

Today's Topics:

    Desperately need info from Develop Magazine #9
    File open requests from Multifinder
    PBCatSearch and related issues
    Icon Dragging
    Launching "through" the Finder???
    Think C & system calls
    MPW 3.2 memory limitations
    Recommend a C compiler here.
    Macintosh Think C/C++ tutorial
    Passing object references -- can it be done?
    Think Class Library discussion list
    ResEdit Easter Eggs


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-------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Carl S. Kashuk)
Subject: Desperately need info from Develop Magazine #9
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:32:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


Help! I posted awhile back about turning sound play-through on
a Classic II on and off. I was told that the info I needed
was in Develop magazine. I contacted them, and was told I could
have a trial copy of that issue; of course I never got it...
and it's getting to be too late to wait for them. Can anyone
help me, by emailing the code involved in turning sound
play-through on and off, or even giving a high-level idea of
what they do? I'm desperate!
- -Carl Kashuk ([e-mail])
- --
"Incompetent? I don't know enough to be incompetent!"
                -Woody Allen, "Shadows and Fog"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Tim Dierks, ToyMeister, Cray abuser)
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:41:06 GMT
Organization: MacDTS, Apple Computer

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Carl S. Kashuk) writes:
> Help! I posted awhile back about turning sound play-through on
> a Classic II on and off. I was told that the info I needed
> was in Develop magazine. I contacted them, and was told I could
> have a trial copy of that issue; of course I never got it...
> and it's getting to be too late to wait for them.

You can get the contents of any develop magazine, including all the
source code and articles, off of ftp.apple.com in the directory
/dts/mac/docs/develop.

Enjoy.

Tim Dierks
MacDTS, but I speak for myself

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (James Wishart)
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:38:21 GMT

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Carl S. Kashuk) writes:
>
>
> Help! I posted awhile back about turning sound play-through on
> a Classic II on and off. I was told that the info I needed
> was in Develop magazine. I contacted them, and was told I could
> have a trial copy of that issue; of course I never got it...
> and it's getting to be too late to wait for them. Can anyone
> help me, by emailing the code involved in turning sound
> play-through on and off, or even giving a high-level idea of
> what they do? I'm desperate!
> -Carl Kashuk ([e-mail])
> --
> "Incompetent? I don't know enough to be incompetent!"
>                 -Woody Allen, "Shadows and Fog"
>

You'll find what you need at ftp.apple.com in ?/dts/docs/develop/*
(or something like that).

Jim Wishart


---------------------------

From: [e-mail] ( Brian Scott)
Subject: File open requests from Multifinder
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:31:42 GMT
Organization: UCSB Physics Department

Hi,

I have a question about programming under MultiFinder.
When the user double clickes on a document that belongs
to my application, and my application is already running,
how does Multifinder pass that information to my
application.  Does anyone know how this works, or
knows where I can look to find more information.

Thanks,

Brian


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jeremiah Blatz)
Date: 19 Apr 92 02:25:19 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

If "Accepts High-Level Events" is set in the "SIZE" resource, the
finder sends your app. an "open" AppleEvent. Otherwise, the Mac
deviously tricks your app. into thinking the user opened the doc. from
your app. by inserting the appropriate menuSelect events into the event
queue, calling SFgetFile, and generally messing around. If you have a
non-standard "Open" menu item (like "Load" or something), you are
expected to stick a "mstr" or "mst#" in your app. telling the Mac which
menu  item to look for. More on this in tech note #205.

Jeremiah
[e-mail]

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Doug McNought)
Subject: PBCatSearch and related issues
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:42:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology


  This is the first time I've really gotten down-and-dirty with the File
Manager, and it's raised a couple of questions:

1) I have an FSSpec that contains:
    -vRefNum
    -dirID
    -the name of a directory whose parent is the dirID above
I need the directory ID of the child (i.e. the target of the FSSpec).

The best way I have found so far to do this involves opening a WD, calling
GetWDInfo to get the dirID, and closing the WD again. This works fine but
strikes me as ugly, since we're admonished constantly that working directories
are simply a hack for programs that don't know about HFS. I can't see any
way to get this ID with PBGetCatInfo, no matter what I pass for ioFDirIndex--
it still needs a vRefNum (or WDRefnum) for the parent directory, and if I'm
going to create a WD anyway it's easiest to use PBGetWDInfo. So, the question
here is: Can this be done without working directories?

Question 2:
  I want to use PBCatSearch to find files with a given type and creator *in
a given directory*. Using the code snippet on ftp.apple.com, I wrote code that
sets two bits in the search flags (Finder info and parent ID), puts the
type, creator, and parent ID in the appropriate fields in the first search
record, and puts 0xffffffff in the same places in the second (mask) search
record. The result is, that PBCatSearch finds *all* the files with type and
creator matching what I want, in any directory on the HD. If I remove the mask
in the parID field of the second search block, it finds no files at all. I'm
looking for a middle ground here... So, more questions:
 --Is PBCatSearch overkill here, given that I'm only searching one directory,
   and nonrecursively at that? (Only going one level deep)
 --How do I get PBCatSearch to do what I want?
If anyone needs more information to answer these, feel free to email me and
I'll send you my code. Posted or emailed answers are welcome.
thanx,
doug


- --
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>Go Orioles<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<> Doug McNaught                          [e-mail] <>
<>  Help!!! I'm addicted to *Spaceward Ho!* Is there a support group? <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>Go Orioles<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Dave Radcliffe)
Date: 18 Apr 92 02:42:41 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Doug McNought) writes:
>
>
>   This is the first time I've really gotten down-and-dirty with the File
> Manager, and it's raised a couple of questions:
>
> 1) I have an FSSpec that contains:
>     -vRefNum
>     -dirID
>     -the name of a directory whose parent is the dirID above
> I need the directory ID of the child (i.e. the target of the FSSpec).
>
> The best way I have found so far to do this involves opening a WD, calling
> GetWDInfo to get the dirID, and closing the WD again. This works fine but
> strikes me as ugly, since we're admonished constantly that working directories
> are simply a hack for programs that don't know about HFS. I can't see any
> way to get this ID with PBGetCatInfo, no matter what I pass for ioFDirIndex--
> it still needs a vRefNum (or WDRefnum) for the parent directory, and if I'm
> going to create a WD anyway it's easiest to use PBGetWDInfo. So, the question
> here is: Can this be done without working directories?

PBGetCatInfo is a little wierd about that.  When you pass in a parent
directory ID in ioDrDirID, it returns an ioFlNum for files or a dirID for
directories.  I.e, the dirID you are looking for is now in dirID and
the parent directory ID is in ioDrParID.  This can also bite you when
you are indexing through a directory as you must reset ioDirID (or
ioDrDirID before every call.  See TNs 68 & 69.

Here is some code that shows how to do it:

/*
 * GetDirIDFromDirName takes a vRefNum/DirID and the name of a directory within the directory
 * specified by the dirID and returns the dirID of the named directory
 */
OSErr GetDirIDFromDirName (short vRefNum, long parDirID, char *dirName, long *foundDirID)
{
     CInfoPBRec            catInfoParamBlock;
     OSErr                err;

     catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioVRefNum = vRefNum;        /* The volume */
     catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioNamePtr = dirName;        /* Name of directory */
     catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioFDirIndex = 0;               /* No indexing */
     catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioDrDirID = parDirID;    /* Parent dirID */
     catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioDrParID = 0;                 /* Zero, just to be safe */


     if (err = PBGetCatInfo (&catInfoParamBlock, false)) {
          return (err);
     } else {
          if (!(catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioFlAttrib & ioDirMask))
               return (fnfErr);        /* If it's not a directory, then return error */
          else {
               *foundDirID = catInfoParamBlock.dirInfo.ioDrDirID;
          }
     }
     return (noErr);
}



> Question 2:
>   I want to use PBCatSearch to find files with a given type and creator *in
> a given directory*. Using the code snippet on ftp.apple.com, I wrote code that
> sets two bits in the search flags (Finder info and parent ID), puts the
> type, creator, and parent ID in the appropriate fields in the first search
> record, and puts 0xffffffff in the same places in the second (mask) search
> record. The result is, that PBCatSearch finds *all* the files with type and
> creator matching what I want, in any directory on the HD. If I remove the mask
> in the parID field of the second search block, it finds no files at all. I'm
> looking for a middle ground here... So, more questions:
>  --Is PBCatSearch overkill here, given that I'm only searching one directory,
>    and nonrecursively at that? (Only going one level deep)
>  --How do I get PBCatSearch to do what I want?
> If anyone needs more information to answer these, feel free to email me and
> I'll send you my code. Posted or emailed answers are welcome.

PBCatSearch is confusing because for some fields it wants a mask and for
others it wants a range and it is not clear from the documentation what it
wants.  In the case of the parent dirID, you think you're giving it a mask by
specifying 0xFFFFFFFF in the SearchInfo2 field, but by doing that you are
specifying a range.  As dirID's are essentially random, there's no
significance to a range and you are finding files from directories scattered
all over the disk.  To make it work put the same value for parent dirID in
both the SearchInfo1 and SearchInfo2 records.

As a side note, because CatSearch is searching on a range of dirIDs, there
is no way to use CatSearch to search a directory and its subfolders.  In
that case you have to resort to a recursive PBGetCatInfo search as in TN 68.

Dave Radcliffe
Apple Computer
MacDTS

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Elon Danziger)
Subject: Icon Dragging
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:45:26 GMT
Organization: Princeton High School, Princeton, New Jersey

What's the best way in Think Pascal to drag an icon around without
erasing other icons?  The routine I wrote is too slow and unresponsive.
(I have it check to see whether the mouse is centered over the icon; if
it isn't, it moves the icon and restores anything left over--the main
problem is that if you move the mouse quickly, the icon sometimes stays
where it is.)  Thanks in advance.

- -Elon

Elon Danziger, Technical SysOp PHSBBS            Princeton High School
DNS: [e-mail]      UUCP: ...!princeton!phsbbs!elon
US Mail: 17 Chestnut Street / Princeton, NJ 08542
DISCLAIMER: Author bears full responsibility for this message.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jon W{tte)
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:02:20 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

.us> [e-mail] (Elon Danziger) writes:

   What's the best way in Think Pascal to drag an icon around without
   erasing other icons?  The routine I wrote is too slow and unresponsive.


DrawgGrayRgn. Probably in the WMgrPort.

- --
"You should meet yourself someday. I'm sure you would hate it."
- - Me: [e-mail]; Jon W{tte (The Diplomat - NOT!)

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Roby Sherman)
Subject: Launching "through" the Finder???
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:35:35 GMT
Organization: The Tao of Programming

Hello.

How do programs like Super Boomerang and/or the various Hierarchial menu
programs launch through the finder? It doesn't appear that they call the
process manager directly, it seems more like they "double-click" the file
THROUGH the finder. Any ideas on how this is done? Can it be done from an
Application or is this an INIT only feat?


            thanks...

                Roby
- --
[e-mail]                    Roby Sherman

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jon W{tte)
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:05:51 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

.edu> [e-mail] (Roby Sherman) writes:

   How do programs like Super Boomerang and/or the various Hierarchial menu
   programs launch through the finder? It doesn't appear that they call the

How about an AppleEvent telling the Finder to "open" the file ?
Check the Finder Events stack.

Warning: the contents of the stack will become unsupported.

- --
"You should meet yourself someday. I'm sure you would hate it."
- - Me: [e-mail]; Jon W{tte (The Diplomat - NOT!)

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (A. James Boswell)
Subject: Think C & system calls
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:33:35 GMT

Will think C 5.0 generate MAC system calls if only the ANSI library is
used ? (how is malloc implemented for e.g.). Does using objects make a
difference (not TCL, just written ones).

James.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jon W{tte)
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:10:14 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

> [e-mail] (A. James Boswell) writes:

   Will think C 5.0 generate MAC system calls if only the ANSI library is
   used ? (how is malloc implemented for e.g.). Does using objects make a
   difference (not TCL, just written ones).

Yes, malloc uses NewPtr, and the I/O library of COURSE uses the
Toolbox wuite extensively.

- --
"You should meet yourself someday. I'm sure you would hate it."
- - Me: [e-mail]; Jon W{tte (The Diplomat - NOT!)

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dr Garry Willgoose: INTERNET [e-mail])
Subject: MPW 3.2 memory limitations
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 04:32:18 GMT

I have a problem with MPW v3.2. I used to be able (under MPW3.0) to able to
compile a FORTRAN (Language Systems) code with the minimum memorypartition of
1Mbyte but since moving to 3.2 I can't compile with the mim. partition of
2Mbyte without getting the error

### Link: Error: Out of memory: unable to allocate resource buffer. (Error 27)

If I increase the parttion to 3Meg there is no problem but this is the only
code that causes this problem and I can't run other stuff with MPW on my
machine when the partition is this size so I'd like to know what I can do.
(Don't tell me to buy more memory because I'm already maxed out).

The code is a stock standard fortran code doing nothing MAC specific, though
there are some arrays that are rather large (if thats important).

Dr Garry Willgoose
Dept of Civil Engineering
Uni of Newcastle
NSW 2308
[e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Anders Sundin)
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:09:05 GMT
Organization: Organic Chemistry 2, Lund University, Sweden

Garry Willgoose writes:
> I have a problem with MPW v3.2.
> ### Link: Error: Out of memory: unable to allocate resource buffer. (Error 27)

It looks like the MPW linker requires approximately the minimum MPW Shell
partition size + the size of COMMON blocks to link FORTRAN programs. When
I linked MOPAC I had to increase the MPW Shell partition to more than 19 MByte.
MOPAC required 17 MByte to run because of the large COMMON blocks.
- --
 Anders Sundin           e-mail: [e-mail]
 Organic Chemistry 2             [e-mail]
 University of Lund              [e-mail]
 P.O. Box 124            phone:  [phone]
 S-22100 Lund, Sweden    fax:    [phone]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik)
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:08:32 GMT
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Dr Garry Willgoose: INTERNET [e-mail]) writes:
>
> I have a problem with MPW v3.2. I used to be able (under MPW3.0) to able to
> compile a FORTRAN (Language Systems) code with the minimum memorypartition of
> 1Mbyte but since moving to 3.2 I can't compile with the mim. partition of
> 2Mbyte without getting the error
>
> ### Link: Error: Out of memory: unable to allocate resource buffer. (Error 27)

>
> If I increase the parttion to 3Meg there is no problem but this is the only
> code that causes this problem and I can't run other stuff with MPW on my
> machine when the partition is this size so I'd like to know what I can do.
> (Don't tell me to buy more memory because I'm already maxed out).

I don't know if the Fortran compiler understands the -mf flag for MultiFinder
temp memory, but if so use that one instead of increasing the MPW shell size.
If that ain't there, then you need to increase the MPW shell heap size, argh.

Cheers,
Kent Sandvik
"Dynamic Languages will kill the Algol ones" Evangelist

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Matt L Kolehmainen)
Subject: Recommend a C compiler here.
Date: 18 Apr 92 23:40:59 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


I would like to get a C compiler for the mac.   I've only
heard of Think C.  As it costs a bundle, I want to make
sure I don't make a mistake.  Does anyone have an educated
preference?  Any recommendations would be helpful.

Thanks,
Mat Kolehmainen.
- --
.............................................................................
Most people feel on occasion that life is absurd,
and some feel it vividly and continually.  -- Thomas Nagel.
.............................................................................

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Terry Thiel)
Date: 19 Apr 92 01:42:24 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

[e-mail] (Matt L Kolehmainen) writes:
>I would like to get a C compiler for the mac.   I've only
>heard of Think C.  As it costs a bundle, I want to make
>sure I don't make a mistake.  Does anyone have an educated
>preference?  Any recommendations would be helpful.
It doesn't cost that much, especially if you can get the educational discount.
They sell it here for $100.
- -Terry

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ralph Gonzalez)
Subject: Macintosh Think C/C++ tutorial
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:13:55 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I've seen a lot of requests on the net for a good textbook for
learning Symantec's Think C or C++.  I wrote one to supplement a
course I teach on object-oriented design and programming, and hope
that the following announcement will be considered as a service to the
net, rather than an abuse of its "no advertising" policy!

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Think C/C++ From Scratch is a HyperCard stack for learning
Symantec Corp.'s object-oriented Think C 5.0 language for Macintosh
computers.  It also serves as an introduction to the main features of
C++.  Unlike most C++ textbooks, no prior C experience is assumed.
Examples can be copied electronically for immediate compilation with
Think C or a C++ compiler.  Although not intended to teach Macintosh
programming, these examples provide an introduction to graphics and
to the workings of application frameworks like the Think Class
Library or MacApp.  A class library for producing 3D wireframe
graphics and animation is included for advanced users.  This library
is portable among Macintosh, PC, and X Window environments.
Requires: 1 Mb RAM, HyperCard 2.0 or later.  Price: $20 ppd., Ralph
Gonzalez, PO Box 54, Newark, DE 19711, USA.  Add $2 overseas orders.
- --
Ralph Gonzalez, Computer Science, Rutgers Univ., Camden, NJ
Phone: [phone]; Internet: [e-mail]
- --

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Ralph Gonzalez)
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:24:07 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I forgot to mention, Think C/C++ From Scratch is NOT the same as the Think C Programming Guide.  The latter is shareware and covers Think C version 4.x.  It is available from sumex-aim.stanford.edu.  TCFS, on the other hand, covers Think C version 5.0, with constructors/destructors, access control, and other C++ features.  It is $20 commercial available from myself.  If you still have Think C version 4, check out TCPG.  Otherwise you're better off with TCFS.

- -Ralph

---------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Laurence Arthur Pittenger)
Subject: Passing object references -- can it be done?
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1992 04:35:41 GMT


I'm using Think C 5.

I have an object definition for objects  I use in my main block of
code.  At times I want to pass this object to a CODE resource to be
used by an independently compiled block of code.

How do I set up the entry parameters of the CODE call so it recognizes
what's coming?  Am I just being stupid, or am I right in thinking this
is tricky?

Do I need to do casting?  Passing by address?  Despair?

Thanks in advance,
LP

- --

Laurence A. Pittenger
CSNET  : [e-mail]
BITNET : pitlaua@yalevm ,  pittenger-laurence@yalecs

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Phil Shapiro)
Date: 18 Apr 92 16:42:56 GMT
Organization: Symantec Corp.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Laurence Arthur Pittenger) writes:

   I'm using Think C 5.

   I have an object definition for objects I use in my main block of
   code.  At times I want to pass this object to a CODE resource to be
   used by an independently compiled block of code.

   How do I set up the entry parameters of the CODE call so it
   recognizes what's coming?  Am I just being stupid, or am I right in
   thinking this is tricky?

Unless I misunderstand your question, the answer is "It can't be
done." If you have an OOP object that's allocated in an application,
you cannot make method calls into it inside of a code resource. This
is because the object dispatch code (1) is tied directly to the
globals pointer (A5 in apps, A4 in code resources); and (2) different
selector IDs will probably be generated for identical method
dispatches. When you write:

    myobj->method();

It becomes (sort of):

    _msg(myobj, method_selector);

If object hierarchy isn't identical in both the application and code
resource, the selector IDs will be different. Even if the heirarchy is
the same, the compiler may generate different selector IDs.

    -phil
- --
   Phil Shapiro                                   Software Engineer
   Language Products Group                     Symantec Corporation
           Internet: [e-mail]

---------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Think Class Library discussion list
Date: 27 Mar 92 21:36:13 GMT
Organization: Brown University

Is there a discussion list dedicated to the Think Class Library? If not I don't
mind maintaining a mailing list and an archive here at Brown University.

- -- Andrew Gilmartin
   Computing & Information Services
   Brown University

   [e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Timothy Troy Orling)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:32:27 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Moy) writes:
>>Is there a discussion list dedicated to the Think Class Library? If not I...
>>mind maintaining a mailing list and an archive here at Brown University.
>

For that matter, how about about comp.sys.mac.programmer.TCL ?
Besides, there are too many articles posted here already!

Somebody want to start the voting? Somebody at SPLASH ought to take the
initiative I think. (Who uses America Online anyway?)
- --
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|  Tim Orling ([e-mail])         |  Is global warming really happening |
|  Materials Joining Laboratory        |  or is it just a long range solar   |
|  Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute    |  cycle we don't understand?         |

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Timothy Troy Orling)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:32:27 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Moy) writes:
>>Is there a discussion list dedicated to the Think Class Library? If not I...
>>mind maintaining a mailing list and an archive here at Brown University.
>

For that matter, how about about comp.sys.mac.programmer.TCL ?
Besides, there are too many articles posted here already!

Somebody want to start the voting? Somebody at SPLASH ought to take the
initiative I think. (Who uses America Online anyway?)
- --
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|  Tim Orling ([e-mail])         |  Is global warming really happening |
|  Materials Joining Laboratory        |  or is it just a long range solar   |
|  Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute    |  cycle we don't understand?         |

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Erik 'EWe' Widell)
Date: 7 Apr 92 09:43:19 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Uppsala Univ.

[e-mail] (Jim Moy) writes:
: >Is there a discussion list dedicated to the Think Class Library? If not I...
: >mind maintaining a mailing list and an archive here at Brown University.
:
: I would also be interested in this.
:
: Jim Moy
: Hewlett-Packard Greeley Hardcopy
: [e-mail]

Yes, I'm also interested.
/Erik

- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      _____ __       __        Syntax errare humanum est.                    |
|     //     ||      //                                                       |
|    //__    || /|  // ___      email : [e-mail]                      |
|   //       ||/ | // //__\                                                   |
|  //_____   |/  |//  |___      University of Uppsala - Sweden                |
|                                                                             |
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Donald T. Major)
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:10:59 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

I also would be interested in such a group.

- --
Donald Major       SAS Institute Inc.  "Cicely, let's fling something!"
[e-mail] SAS Campus Drive                 - Northern Exposure
[phone]     Cary, NC 27513-2414

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Lance 'Moof' Kimes)
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:22:11 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA


So when is this discussion list going to happen? Who's organizing?
I'd volunteer, but I'm way too busy right now. Maybe June.

Lance Kimes
Systems Programmer
Univ. of Southern California

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik)
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:20:41 GMT
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <v31tc=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Timothy Troy
Orling) writes:
>
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Moy) writes:
> >>Is there a discussion list dedicated to the Think Class Library? If not I...
> >>mind maintaining a mailing list and an archive here at Brown University.
> >
>
> For that matter, how about about comp.sys.mac.programmer.TCL ?
> Besides, there are too many articles posted here already!

..or comp.sys.mac.programmer.OOP which would contain most of the
object oriented frameworks and languages. We had this discussion before,
is it time to split the mac programming group to sub-groups or not?

Cheers,
Kent

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Brian Hall)
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:19:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I think that TCL and MacApp are specific enough to require seperate
groups.  Perhaps comp.sys.mac.programmer.tcl and comp.sys.mac.programmer.
macapp.


- --
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian Hall, Mark/Space Softworks                                            |
| [e-mail]; Applelink, America Online: MarkSpace                     |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Jim Moy)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1992 23:00:08 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO

>Is there a discussion list dedicated to the Think Class Library? If not I...
>mind maintaining a mailing list and an archive here at Brown University.

I would also be interested in this.

Jim Moy
Hewlett-Packard Greeley Hardcopy
[e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik)
Date: 17 Apr 92 23:30:58 GMT
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brian Hall) writes:
>
> I think that TCL and MacApp are specific enough to require seperate
> groups.  Perhaps comp.sys.mac.programmer.tcl and comp.sys.mac.programmer.
> macapp.

Sometimes cross-pollination of ideas is a good thing, so I would not mind
to move most of the object framework discussion to the same newsgroup.

Cheers,
Kent

---------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: ResEdit Easter Eggs
Date: 31 Mar 92 14:05:07 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology


   In ResEdit 2.1. create a version resource and take a look at the
available country codes. Ones exist for Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and
Russia but not the USSR  even though ResEdit was released in late 1990,
well before the breakup of the Soviet Union.  Perhaps Apple is more
prophetic than we know.  Unfortunately there aren't any for the Ukraine
or the dozen other independent states. Perhaps in 2.2.
   The real topper, though, is a country code for Ancient Greece! I
guess we're expecting a Homeric operating system real soon now. :-)

Elliotte Rusty Harold        Department of Applied Mathematics
[e-mail]        New Jersey Institute of Technology
[e-mail]        Newark, NJ 07103

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Erik Sea)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 20:13:43 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>   The real topper, though, is a country code for Ancient Greece! I
>guess we're expecting a Homeric operating system real soon now. :-)

There's no code for English Canada...  As a result we have to suffer with
British or American product versions, neither of which reflect subtle
distinctions.  For example, try finding a spell-checker which accepts the
word "counsellor" or recognizes "Saskatchewan".

If Apple ever added such a code, perhaps developers would be encouraged to
make the minor adjustments needed to localize for Canada.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy)
Date: 31 Mar 92 23:35:37 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

[e-mail] (Erik Sea) writes:

>If Apple ever added such a code, perhaps developers would be encouraged to
>make the minor adjustments needed to localize for Canada.

 Hear, hear. However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
on my nerves a bit.

 - Neil K. ([e-mail])

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Ross Brown)
Date: 1 Apr 92 18:56:43 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:
>[e-mail] (Erik Sea) writes:
>
>>If Apple ever added such a code, perhaps developers would be encouraged to
>>make the minor adjustments needed to localize for Canada.
>
> Hear, hear. However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>on my nerves a bit.
>
> - Neil K. ([e-mail])
>

Evidently Apple economizes by limiting the registration to countries with a
stable past and promising future, like, say, Armenia.

Ross Brown
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
[e-mail]
Opinions expressed do not necessarily represent those of BNR.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Erik Sea)
Date: 2 Apr 92 02:32:01 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:

> Hear, hear. However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>on my nerves a bit.

Alas, it's even more complicated than that; if it were simply "colour" over
"color" we could get away with UK versions.  If you follow Canadian Press
guidelines, "color" is correct and "center" is also.  Additionally, no person
in Canada (save recent British arrivals) would speak of putting anything but
a *tire* on his pickup *truck*; note that UK versions would allow two different
words to be substituted there.

At the very least, Canadian English is a hybrid of American and British, but
there are also some uniquenesses; words such as "touque" which I've only ever
seen in a Gage dictionary, and from what I've been told, double-l words like
"counselling" which don't play east or south of here...

Geographic references alone justify localization for some products.

I guess what I am saying is this:  not all products have to be localized for
Canada, but some *need* it, and the vers resource should support that fact if
Apple really does want us to "plan it for the planet" and if we want to be able
to better penetrate 10% of the English-speaking north american market.

Incidentally, I have heard that some software is being regionally localized
*within* the US, an endeavour which apple might consider supporting by some
means; even ethnic "localization" is a possibility...

Erik Sea

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Ken Hancock)
Date: 2 Apr 92 04:52:57 GMT
Organization: Isle Systems - Waltham, MA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Erik Sea) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:
>
>> Hear, hear. However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>>on my nerves a bit.

Well, I could say that the folks in Canada and the UK just learn
to spell correctly, but then I'd probably be flamed for being an
insensitive, ego-centric lout.  ;-)

Ken

- --
Ken Hancock             | INTERNET: [e-mail]
Isle Systems            | Compuserve: >INTERNET: [e-mail]
Macintosh Consulting    | AOL: KHancock
                        | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine,

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Tobias Kuipers (I91))
Date: 2 Apr 92 13:09:47 GMT
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam

[e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:

>[e-mail] (Erik Sea) writes:

>>If Apple ever added such a code, perhaps developers would be encouraged to
>>make the minor adjustments needed to localize for Canada.

> Hear, hear. However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>on my nerves a bit.

Well well, and you're just complaining about a few letters
more or less. In The Netherlands we have our own version of
the Finder and it's awful. They did try so hard to translate
all the Finder menu-items that the result (in Dutch) is
completely unreadable. So I for one, and about all the other
mac users in The Netherlands for two and three are sticking to
the International version of the finder. Maybe the guys in
Canada cabn try the same and feel indepent of the US and UK.

- --
Tobias Kuipers           |  Two men need one money, but one
[e-mail]       |        money need no men
                         |- From 'Delicious Demon' by
                         |       The Sugarcubes

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Anthony J. Patrinos)
Date: 1 Apr 92 20:56:24 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
                           [Stuff deleted]

>   The real topper, though, is a country code for Ancient Greece! I
>guess we're expecting a Homeric operating system real soon now. :-)
>
>Elliotte Rusty Harold        Department of Applied Mathematics
>[e-mail]        New Jersey Institute of Technology
>[e-mail]        Newark, NJ 07103

Although Modern and Ancient Greek use the same alphabet, Ancient Greek also
uses extra diacritical marks (accents and breaths). Moreover, there used to be
a couple of extra characters in the alphabet in thhe very old days. So I guess
this might have been what they had in mind.

They could of course be joking, since these differences could prbably be
handled with the right keyboard layouts and fonts. I'm not sure, however if an
8-bit character set would be large enough to hold oall the combinations af
characters and diacritical marks. If not, then a different script would be the
way to go, making a different country code necessary (?).

Cheers,

Tony Patrinos
Syracuse University

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Marcus Harvey)
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:55:27 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic of Central London

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tobias Kuipers (I91)) writes:
>[e-mail] (Neil K. Guy) writes:
>
>>[e-mail] (Erik Sea) writes:
>
>>>If Apple ever added such a code, perhaps developers would be encouraged to
>>>make the minor adjustments needed to localize for Canada.
>
>> Hear, hear. However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>>on my nerves a bit.
>
>Well well, and you're just complaining about a few letters
>more or less. In The Netherlands we have our own version of
>the Finder and it's awful. They did try so hard to translate
>all the Finder menu-items that the result (in Dutch) is
>completely unreadable. So I for one, and about all the other
>mac users in The Netherlands for two and three are sticking to
>the International version of the finder. Maybe the guys in
>Canada cabn try the same and feel indepent of the US and UK.
>
What's this 'International' version? Is it in Esperanto? ;-)

>--
>Tobias Kuipers           |  Two men need one money, but one
>[e-mail]       |        money need no men
>                         |- From 'Delicious Demon' by
>                         |       The Sugarcubes

Aahhh! The Sugarcubes, if only that guy would stop rapping atrociously
on every track I'd buy their records...

- - marcus
  [e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Adrian Le Hanne)
Organization: Einoed Unix & Netzwerke, Berlin (FRG)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 15:41:44 GMT

[e-mail] (Marcus Harvey) writes:
>>--
>>Tobias Kuipers           |  Two men need one money, but one
>>[e-mail]       |        money need no men
>>                         |- From 'Delicious Demon' by
>>                         |       The Sugarcubes

>Aahhh! The Sugarcubes, if only that guy would stop rapping atrociously
>on every track I'd buy their records...
>- marcus
>  [e-mail]

I'd prefer KUKL which is basically The Sugarcubes setup before they
started to do only pop music. But this has nothing to do with Mac's, so
we should probably move to alt.music.alternative ;-)

Adrian
- --
  Adrian S. Le Hanne      Einoed Unix & Netzwerke
  [e-mail] Koepenicker Strasse 154, D-1000 Berlin 36 (FRG)
..!fub!einoed!alh         Tel: [phone], Fax: [phone]
                          "Christianity Is Stupid." -Negativland

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University)
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:19:58 GMT
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>    In ResEdit 2.1. create a version resource and take a look at the
> available country codes. Ones exist for Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and
> Russia but not the USSR  even though ResEdit was released in late 1990,
> well before the breakup of the Soviet Union.  Perhaps Apple is more
> prophetic than we know.  Unfortunately there aren't any for the Ukraine
> or the dozen other independent states. Perhaps in 2.2.

Last I saw, the Script Manager documentation was starting to use the
term "regions" rather than "countries" for those codes, obviously to reflect
the fact that localization is a cultural, rather than political issue.

I guess the USSR was never a single culturally-distinct region in its own
right, unless you count Communism as a culture :-).

Lawrence D'Oliveiro
System Z-7.0 user

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik)
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:54:44 GMT
Organization: MacDTS Mongols

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Hancock) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> > >> Hear, hear.
However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
> >>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
> >>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
> >>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
> >>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
> >>on my nerves a bit.
>
> Well, I could say that the folks in Canada and the UK just learn
> to spell correctly, but then I'd probably be flamed for being an
> insensitive, ego-centric lout.  ;-)


Don't forget the Kiwiis and Aussies, color is 'colour' down under.

Cheers,
Kent
former down under-ite

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (John A Lambert)
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:52:19 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Hancock) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> > >> Hear, hear.
> However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>> >>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>> >>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>> >>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>> >>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>> >>on my nerves a bit.
>>
>> Well, I could say that the folks in Canada and the UK just learn
>> to spell correctly, but then I'd probably be flamed for being an
>> insensitive, ego-centric lout.  ;-)
>
>
> Don't forget the Kiwiis and Aussies, color is 'colour' down under.
>
> Cheers,
> Kent
> former down under-ite
- --
The latest Macquarie Dictionary (reflecting discussions at Style Council
meetings, newspaper and book surveys, user input, etc.) treats 'color'
and 'colour' as equally acceptable Australian spellings.
 My preference is for the former (reflecting the original Latin.)

John A Lambert
Centre for Literary and Linguistic Computing
The University of Newcastle NSW 2308 Australia
Phone National        (049)21 5750    Fax National       (049) 21 6910
      International [phone]        International [phone]
VAXPSI  PSI%0505249626002::CCJAL      AARNet  [e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:57:00 GMT
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik)              writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ken Hancock) writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]> > >> Hear, hear.
>However it seems that Apple appears to consider Canada as
>> >>being simply an extension of the US market in a lot of ways. At least
>> >>Canada is part of Pacific (I think) and not Apple USA. Certainly
>> >>changing the way things are spelt (or spelled...) in the Finder would
>> >>be nice for a Canadian version. The Finder 6 "color"  menu used to get
>> >>on my nerves a bit.
>>
>> Well, I could say that the folks in Canada and the UK just learn
>> to spell correctly, but then I'd probably be flamed for being an
>> insensitive, ego-centric lout.  ;-)
>
>
>Don't forget the Kiwiis and Aussies, color is 'colour' down under.
>
>Cheers,
>Kent
>former down under-ite

For those who are interested, I will say why we in the USA use color and
flavor instead of colour and flavour, etc. It is because of President Theodore
Roosevelt. He felt that words should be written the way that they are spoken
and used words which end in our but have a sound of or as examples. The
newspapers back then had a field day using "words" such as "tuff", "enuff" in
articles about him. After that occured, he stopped his crusade of changing the
spelling of words to how they were pronounced but color and flavor stuck, so
that is how we in the USA write those words. Those who were interested in
this article of history or want to flame me about wasting bandwidth on trivia
may write to [e-mail].

                        Sincerely yours,

                        Thomas R. Kettler "Mac Nut"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Russell S. Finn)
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:03:28 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:
|> For those who are interested, I will say why we in the USA use
|> color and flavor instead of colour and flavour, etc. It is because
|> of President Theodore Roosevelt....

As I've mentioned to my schoolmate in a separate letter, it was in
fact Noah Webster, in his dictionary of the "American Language", who
had introduced these spelling reforms, along with others that caught
on ("jail") and many that did not ("tho", "tuff").  Webster's first
dictionary was published around 1806, if I remember correctly, but in
any event close to a hundred years before Roosevelt's presidency.

- -- Russell S. Finn
[e-mail]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: [e-mail] (Ross Sheehy)
Date: 18 Apr 92 03:06:10 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne

>> Don't forget the Kiwiis and Aussies, color is 'colour' down under.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kent
>> former down under-ite
>--
>The latest Macquarie Dictionary (reflecting discussions at Style Council
>meetings, newspaper and book surveys, user input, etc.) treats 'color'
>and 'colour' as equally acceptable Australian spellings.
> My preference is for the former (reflecting the original Latin.)

That of course ignores the opinion of many that the Macquarie Dictionary
should be known as the "Dinkum Aussie Book of Words".
The term dictionary flatters it.

Ooh!  Did I say that?!

>John A Lambert
>Centre for Literary and Linguistic Computing
>The University of Newcastle NSW 2308 Australia
>Phone National        (049)21 5750    Fax National       (049) 21 6910
>      International [phone]        International [phone]
>VAXPSI  PSI%0505249626002::CCJAL      AARNet  [e-mail]

Ross Sheehy
- -----------
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ross Sheehy ([e-mail])                    |
|   Don't hurry.  Don't worry.  Take time off to smell the flowers. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

---------------------------

End of C.S.M.P. Digest
**********************